Next time you start a new Origins game, make sure to talk to the guards outside of Loghain and Cailan’s tents at Ostagar; talk to both, exhaust all dialogue, and demand an audience with Loghain and talk to him. Then you can try telling me Ostagar wasn’t doomed to be a loss, retreat or no, if you still believe that.
The guard outside Cailan’s tent in particular has interesting things to say that you don’t get otherwise. He will tell you, straight out, that Cailan refuses to listen to a word Loghain says. That he dogs the Grey Wardens wherever they go and spends all day drinking and socializing with Wardens and soldiers instead of talking strategy with Loghain. The guard outside Loghain’s tent will tell you they have shouting matches about it. Both guards will express that they think Cailan should be listening to Loghain.
You can also tell Loghain you think Cailan a fool, and Loghain will actually snap at you for it, reminding you that he’s very young. He’s frustrated with Cailan, even angry at him for being so flippant about things, but he doesn’t hate him, and he doesn’t take kindly to people insulting him.
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